The fruits of Rubus Tayberry Group
Following the convention of the Royal Horticultural Society, I’ve used the name Rubus Tayberry Group for this hybrid. The original tayberry, a cross between the early-ripening Rubus ‘Aurora’ (a blackberry) and a large-fruited tetraploid raspberry (tetraploids have 4 sets of chromosomes instead of the usual two and tend to be more robust), was hybridized at the Scottish Crops Research Institute in Invergowrie, Scotland (source: Wikipedia).
In efforts to improve it (e.g., a longer fruiting season or improving hardiness or thornlessness), other plant breeders would attempt similar crosses but with slight variations (e.g., a different blackberry cultivar as one parent) — the end results would be something closely resembling the original tayberry, but genetically different. Since a cultivar name should, in theory, represent only one distinct genotype, a different naming convention is required when an aggregate of (often) closely-related genotypes are known to exist, though it may be exceedingly difficult to tell them apart. Hence, Tayberry Group. Similar examples include Colorado blue spruce (Picea pungens Glauca Group), purple New Zealand flax (Phormium tenax Purpureum Group) and pendulous ginkgo (Ginkgo biloba Pendula Group).
The flavour of tayberry has been described as “clean, tangy, and tart”. I find them to have a slight overtone of soap which isn’t altogether pleasant, but perhaps that’s just me.
Great photo, Daniel, though despite the blandishments of how others describe the taste, ‘soapy’ is what will stick in my mind! Do you or anyone else know of a good general treatment of the genus Rubus, not too technical? Focus more on the ecology side of the wild species would work for me. I love their opportunistic exuberance in landscapes from the deep South to very far North. By the way, I don’t expect you, Daniel, to spend much time on my questions – if you know or come up with something quickly that’s great and much appreciated.
I was wondering if the red raspberry would be in the same group. In the 1960’s most raspberries only fruited once a year. I found a nursey which had the first of the twice bearing. They were developed at the University or New Hampshire in Durham and were called Durham Raspberres. They fruited in June and again in Sept. Thank you for all the information and the picture is great.
Margaret-Rae
Lovely photograph. Too bad about the taste.
Maybe “clean” is what they mean by “soapy.” Like “cozy” for “cramped.”
i think certain people consistently taste soapiness in red rasps & the crosses. my mom and several of my relatives always say the same about reds and hate them. but i adore them, as does my sister, and we don’t taste the soap. seems to me that the same people tend to complain of the same soapy taste in golden raisins. i wonder if it has to do with the ‘super tasters’ vs the ‘regular’ ones. great pic, btw! i really enjoy reading bpd each day.
Tammy, I think you may have hit the nail on the head.
Andrea, thanks for the comment. You must live in an apartment-style condo like me! That’s real-estate language for you.
George, the best resource on Rubus that I recall was a book lent to me briefly by Dr. Hugh Daubeny (a former raspberry breeder). I’ll ask him about its title when next I see him, but I think it was Rubus in North America by L.H. Bailey (way, way out of print, though I imagine the L.H. Bailey Hortorium would have a copy).
Margaret-Rae, most raspberries that I know have their parentage tracked, so the genetically distinct ones will have their own cultivar names (or plant-breeding number / name appellations) as opposed to being lumped together under a group designation.
Tammy, what a great comment! So we shouldn’t assume the tayberry tastes soapy–it might only taste soapy to a small percentage of us, those with certain genes.
Some people have a gene that causes them to taste a certain bitter compound, found in brussel sprouts, and others cannot taste it. See this article:
Individual Differences in Taste Perception Directly Related To Genetic Variation In Taste Receptors
Maybe raspberries and their relatives also contain a compound that only some of us can taste.
Don’t let Daniel’s soapy description scare you away—try a tayberry for yourself!
Yep, I heartily agree with Katherine. Do taste it for yourself.
Here are a few Rubus references from Hugh. They tend toward the breeding side of things, though that is useful when trying to discern ecological information – breeders will look at properties such as growing conditions, habit, fruiting time, etc.
Abstract Bibliography of Fruit Breeding and Genetics to 1955 Rubus and Ribes – A Survey by R.L. Knight and Elizabeth Keep. Technical Communication No. 25. CAB Commonwealth Agricultural Bureau
Abstract Bibliography of Fruit Breeding and Genetics 1956 -1969 by R.L. Knight, Jill H. Parker and Elizabeth Keep. Technical Communication No. 32. CAB
Raspberries and Blackberries: Their Breeding, Diseases and Growth by D.L. Jennings – published by Academic Press. London. 1988
Brambles. Chapter 2 in Fruit Breeding. by Hugh A Daubeny – Volume 11 Vine and Small Fruits Crops. 1996 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. (edited by J. Janick and J.N. Moore)
Does anyone know a source in the USA for Tayberries? I had some several times 2 summers ago in scotland and loved the taste (no soap for me). TIA
Gwyn
Ok I’ve grown up on vancouver island, and in our back yard have been berries that appear to be Tayberries. So I did a little research, couple of books and some webbrowsing. I wound up with rather nice pictures and discriptions of a tayberry, the most important i’ve noted is that they appear hollow like rasberries when picked.
Well our berries are not hollow when picked and appear almost purple when ready to pick. My grandmother has always called them Cascade berries. This i believe is related to the fact that when they rippen they do not stay on the vine; they “Cascade” to the ground. So if you do not pick them everyday you will miss them, they are not a hardy berry nor do they like the smallist bit of rain, which in difficult living on the “wet” coast as it tends to rain alot. They are ripe early septmember to mid and only for about 10 days. But the amount of berries produced is unbelievible, They keep well frozen as you must do when they are pick, and they will not last an afternoon on the counter as they tend to turn to mush right away.
AS for the TASTE, Like a cross between a logan berry and blackberry with a nice sharp aftertaste. (NO SOAP) Your pictures (I don’t have any right now) Are similar but out “Cascade” berry is narrower and longer. According to my father, My grandfather got them from a botanist in vancouver in the mid 60’s after apparnetly crossing a Logan berry with a wild north american blackberry.
NOw the QUESTION, i was wondering how i would go about finding out the true heritage of this berry?
I found this site because I googled tayberry. We bought some jam in a market in B.C. Canada and found it very good. We had never heard of tayberry so I looked it up to see what they were.
The jam is excellent and if we get up that way again, we will definately buy more. This was at Gatzke’s orchards and farm market at Oyama which is close to Kelowna B.C.
http://www.gatzkeorchard.com/
Can someone tell me where to purchace the (rubusgroup) tayberry plant in B.C. Thankyou Al
Never been partial to the flavor of Tayberries fresh myself, but they make a lovely jam and a wonderful wine.
As for purchasing Tayberry plants, don’t know about BC, but here in the Pacific Northwest I can recommend either Sakuma Brothers in Burlington WA or Weeks Berries in Keizer OR. Both carry excellent healthy plants.
Anyone know where I can find a tayberry plant? I live in Ottawa, Ontario Canada. No garden center around here seems to have them. I was thinking maybe an online nursery?
I found tayberries at Nicasto’s on Bank St. in Ottawa last week. Just the berries, not the plants, but they might direct you to their supplier.
I too, am looking for TAYBERRY PLANTS…HOWEVER, I hope to find the BUCKINGHAM TAYBERRY which is thornfree.
I’ve never had such difficulty in locating a plant. It seems there are only two nurseries which carry it and neither carry the thornfree.
I grew a tayberry plant years ago and it was WONDERFUL. To minimize winter damage, I grew it next to my house. No problem.
OOPS! IN MY LAST POST, I NEGLECTED TO SAY I AM IN THE UNITED STATES (NORTHERN IDAHO).
I have had no success finding the Buckingham in North America either (I’m Canadian). All the sites I’ve found are in the UK, and it appears that the Buckingham hasn’t ‘crossed the pond’. Since you’re in the US, I’d ask the ‘OneGreenWorld’ folks, who appear to do a fair bit of global sourcing, if they could get it.